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LombudXa
«eS][Clan Leader»
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Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 2583
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Clan: «eS][Clan»
Nick: «eS][LombudXa»
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 Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Ovel wrote: | | LombudXa wrote: | IMO, it's not a really good feature because it's just not fair somehow for the slaves. But anyway, I think you only can have one slave because it's really unlikely that you revive the same guy 3 times and another one as well.
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I think earning more points is better since it only introduces an advantage for players and not make the slaves "weaker". IMO the guy who get slaved is penalised enough because in order to get necroed you need to die first. So why give him another disadvantage? |
Nope, it's not fair, and that's the point
Revived players gets a new chance to play but they don't have any disadvantage. Why?
I've noticed we reached wave 25 very often since we introduced the necro combo. It's nice, but I think it made the game a bit too easier. Making the necro a bit "twisted" could balance things back. |
Well, imo it's still more difficult than we had it in the beginning of the mutator (before I made the waves more difficult). We hardly reached waves over 10  and now with the necro we are able to beat it again. Also I don't think we really reach the last wave very often. We still die quite a lot before we even reach waves above 20. IMO, the necro isn't making our Invasion too easy, it makes it possible to beat it. Also it varies quite a bit depending on how ppl play and such. Sometimes it looks like the necro is way to powerful but sometimes it seems it's almost no use. Well as I said it really depends on the situation.
| Ovel wrote: | | The points sharing thing is probably too hard to do (haven't really checked yet). That means there won't be disadvantages at all with necro |
K, no problem if it's too difficult. Would be nice though  Well I still think it's a disadvantage for the slave. Hmm maybe that would introduce more camping because I don't want to get slaved and I die a lot because I go usually in the middle of the action 
| Ovel wrote: | What do you guys think about making the slave's life linked to his/her master's? That would mean that if a master dies, all of his/her slaves will dies as well
Ok, it sounds a bit harsh for the slaves, but resurrecting 3 times the same player is quite unusual so it won't happen often hopefully. |
So there's no advantage for the person who trigger the necro? I think we should at least reward the ppl somehow for doing it.
I'm really not sure if that works well. Think of a noob who dies a lot get necroed all the time and become slaves of almost everyone  Then the master dies and the noob just dies aswell and I think many just don't understand the idea then and say/think something like: "WTF, who killed me? Why? What happened?" and maybe will leave because she/he just doesn't get it what's up. I think that's a major disadvantage because we are all aware of that circumstance. Sure you will say we can tell them but not all are asking and I think the gap between regulars and newcomers is already too big. I'd like to make it more unpredictable for everyone. I mean it should be balanced a bit for newcomers (I don't mean the ppl playing Invasion for the first time but the ones playing the first time on our server) and for us regulars. Why making it easier for regulars and more difficult for newcomers?
How about you make finish the new version now without it and make another one with that included and we can see how it goes maybe on a private event or I can install it on the public server and we see how the reactions are.
I would like to see some more comments about that features from other regulars. I'm interested what others think about it.
| Ovel wrote: | It'll count up to 3 for the whole game. At least, that was kafka originally proposed, IIRC.
However, if we're going to indroduce some sort of disadvantage for the slave, I would suggest to make the master/slave relation lasting for only 1 wave and not for the whole game. Thus, a player would become a slave at the first necro, but the bound (and the disadvantage) will "disappear" at the next wave. |
Well, I would do that anyway because if you make it only within one wave it won't happen at all. We will never have a slave or almost never. I think it's k that the slave feature itself work over the whole Invasion but you only can get slaved for one wave (the following wave you got 3rd time necroed). |
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Ovel
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Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| LombudXa wrote: | | So there's no advantage for the person who trigger the necro? I think we should at least reward the ppl somehow for doing it. |
Well there is still the points reward thing which will be introduced in alpha9. It's a nice advantage IMO.
| LombudXa wrote: | | I'm really not sure if that works well. Think of a noob who dies a lot get necroed all the time and become slaves of almost everyone Then the master dies and the noob just dies aswell and I think many just don't understand the idea then and say/think something like: "WTF, who killed me? Why? What happened?" and maybe will leave because she/he just doesn't get it what's up. I think that's a major disadvantage because we are all aware of that circumstance. Sure you will say we can tell them but not all are asking. |
That was just an idea. The point is that we definitively should make the necro less powerful but we should make the slave feature more meaningful. A visual effect is funny but doesn't bring anything new...
I agree that killing the slave is harsh, but on the other hand, I think it's unfair to be revived and play without any handicap at all. Maybe we could find something else like no regen, or no Zoom, or no adrenaline, etc...
| LombudXa wrote: | | How about you make finish the new version now without it and make another one with that included and we can see how it goes maybe on a private event or I can install it on the public server and we see how the reactions are. |
Well we're talking about features which aren't even started yet
Right now, the objectives are :
- finishing the TroubleRemover mut (almost done).
- releasing alpha9 before the next password event. I hope I'll make it, but it's a busy week  so I don't really know.
The slave things is just for futures version.
| LombudXa wrote: | | I would like to see some more comments about that features from other regulars. I'm interested what others think about it. |
Agreed. Some inputs from the regulars would be nice. |
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kafka
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Joined: Aug 02, 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Ovel wrote: | | LombudXa wrote: | | Just have a question about it. How you would add it? Will it count up 3 for the whole Invasion (same map) or only from within one wave? Probably for the whole Invasion would be more fun since then it's possible that you necro the same person several times. |
It'll count up to 3 for the whole game. At least, that was kafka originally proposed, IIRC. |
No, 3 necros is what Lom originally proposed:
| LombudXa wrote: | | Necromancy 2: I thought about another feature for the necromancy: For example after 3 times you necroed the same person she/he will become a slave of you. Maybe make it somehow visual so the others can see it. I thought that you will earn half of the points the others frag during that wave he got the 3rd time necroed. |
I've only poposed that any revived player shares any points scored for the first 30 seconds (or so) with the reviver.
However, I very much like the idea that the revived player's life depends on the survival of the reviver for the rest of a given wave. In other words, if the reviver dies so does the revived player. And, in the same wave, if a dead reviver is revived then any of his own revived players are also revived. Could be quite interesting. |
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Ovel
Joined: Aug 20, 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| kafka wrote: | | No, 3 necros is what Lom originally proposed |
My bad then.
| kafka wrote: | | However, I very much like the idea that the revived player's life depends on the survival of the reviver for the rest of a given wave. In other words, if the reviver dies so does the revived player. And, in the same wave, if a dead reviver is revived then any of his own revived players are also revived. Could be quite interesting. |
Agreed. I didn't thought about reviving masters along with their slaves, but it makes sense now  |
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LombudXa
Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 2583
Location: omnipresent
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Clan: «eS][Clan»
Nick: «eS][LombudXa»
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| kafka wrote: | | However, I very much like the idea that the revived player's life depends on the survival of the reviver for the rest of a given wave. In other words, if the reviver dies so does the revived player. And, in the same wave, if a dead reviver is revived then any of his own revived players are also revived. Could be quite interesting. |
K, well add that feature then and we see how it goes. I agree that it's a nice idea but we should be careful about it because I think it can introduce "bad"/unwanted things into gameplay.
Anyway, I think it's a bit too much that all the slaves of a dead reviver gets revived as well. Didn't we want to make it less powerful? This seems overpowered to me. |
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kafka
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| LombudXa wrote: | | Anyway, I think it's a bit too much that all the slaves of a dead reviver gets revived as well. Didn't we want to make it less powerful? This seems overpowered to me. |
I think you might be right, Lom, but it's a bit difficult to tell beforehand. The necro's overall power will be both downgraded and upgraded. But we should keep in mind that the chances of a master dying with all his slaves is always going to be greater than a master being revived with all his slaves. Afterall, the advantage can not occur until after the disadvantage has occurred. |
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LombudXa
Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 2583
Location: omnipresent
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Clan: «eS][Clan»
Nick: «eS][LombudXa»
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| LombudXa wrote: | Anyway, I think it's a bit too much that all the slaves of a dead reviver gets revived as well. Didn't we want to make it less powerful? This seems overpowered to me.
| kafka wrote: | | I think you might be right, Lom, but it's a bit difficult to tell beforehand. The necro's overall power will be both downgraded and upgraded. But we should keep in mind that the chances of a master dying with all his slaves is always going to be greater than a master being revived with all his slaves. Afterall, the advantage can not occur until after the disadvantage has occurred |
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Well the only way to find it out is to have a look on the public server I know it's really difficult to say what will happen when we add this to the server. |
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kafka
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
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Location: Budapest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:24 am Post subject: exploding head |
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This is just a little memo about a suggestion made last night for improving the Sacrifice Combo. It would be funny if the combo could include a variation of the "big head combo" effect so that, in the seconds before exploding, the player's head grows to maximum size.
It seems to me that Sacrifice is being used more for a good laugh than for tactical advantage.
So, why not make it look even funnier? Perhaps a funny sound could also be added.
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LombudXa
Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 2583
Location: omnipresent
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Nick: «eS][LombudXa»
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:34 am Post subject: Re: exploding head |
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| kafka wrote: | This is just a little memo about a suggestion made last night for improving the Sacrifice Combo. It would be funny if the combo could include a variation of the "big head combo" effect so that, in the seconds before exploding, the player's head grows to maximum size.
It seems to me that Sacrifice is being used more for a good laugh than for tactical advantage.
So, why not make it look even funnier? Perhaps a funny sound could also be added.
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Heh, well I like this idea. However, I use it more for tatictal purpose I think than for just for fun. I think it's actually really a tactical combo now.
I would suggest that the head will grow from the beginning until you explode. I think that looks more funny and others can "see" it better when the player explodes. |
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Ovel
Joined: Aug 20, 2004
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:50 am Post subject: Re: exploding head |
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| kafka wrote: | | This is just a little memo about a suggestion made last night for improving the Sacrifice Combo. It would be funny if the combo could include a variation of the "big head combo" effect so that, in the seconds before exploding, the player's head grows to maximum size. |
lol I like that idea and it should't be difficult to implement 
I think Lom's suggestion about making the head growing gradually is better than just make it grow seconds before exploding, though.
| kafka wrote: | | It seems to me that Sacrifice is being used more for a good laugh than for tactical advantage. |
I agree Sacrifice isn't often used in a tactical way. However, I prefer trying to improve it to make it usefull instead of making it just funnier 
Right now, the problem with Sacrifice is that it's too fast imho. It's hard to aim well when you move so fast. I think we should reduce the movement speed and see if it's more effective.
| kafka wrote: | | Perhaps a funny sound could also be added. |
How about a clock-timer sound? Like in the old-fashionned home-made bomb? |
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LombudXa
Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 2583
Location: omnipresent
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Nick: «eS][LombudXa»
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Ovel wrote: | | Right now, the problem with Sacrifice is that it's too fast imho. It's hard to aim well when you move so fast. I think we should reduce the movement speed and see if it's more effective. |
Yep, I agree. It's a bit too fast but I think it's possible to use it effective. I could kill alot of warlords once with sacrifice Well I can tweak some settings related to sacrifice. However, since I'm not able to test it form the office I cannot do that really. Maybe Ovel knows a few better settings for these:
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