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LombudXa
«eS][Clan Leader»
![«eS][Clan Leader»](/modules/Forums/images/ranks/leader.jpg "«eS][Clan Leader»")
Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 2583
Location: omnipresent
Status: Offline
Clan: «eS][Clan»
Nick: «eS][LombudXa»
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 Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:55 pm Post subject: TGPInvasion Mutator needs feedback |
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EDIT: This is the only thread which the «eS][Clan» will host for providing feedback related to the TGPInvasion mutator and it's upcoming releases (if any). There might be changes later on but we will see what will happen:
Hey all
Ovel and me like to collect some useful information, suggestions, improvements and new features to implement for the custom mutator Ovel coded for us. If you find bugs or just annoying things which you notice now since the mutator is up, then let us know. If you just like to have a new feature included in the mutator then try to explain how it should work as exactly as you can or what should be added/removed or what ever. Of course, only saying thanks or your impression about it is also appreciated 
First some general feedback: Well I'd like to thank you Ovel, for the great work you do for us on my server. This is not common that someone offers me such a nice addition for the server and I really appreciate it. The mutator works really great so far imo, but I see also that maps which were running really nice before suffers a bit from it as well. For example DOM-Access was really a cool map because monsters only spawn at the normal spawn points and you get trapped in between the 2 corridors. Now they spawn all over but I think many maps really are improved only because of the random spawning. So far, I played quite a few maps which weren't playable before and it works great now. I probably will add some maps again, which I removed because of spawn point problems to see if it's playable now. I think most will work 
I would like to see the 3rd View Mutator included, a working online addon which won't force the custom crosshair. I'm sure this will be fun. Also I don't want the other stuff included so we could get rid of the other files like StaticMeshes and Textures included in the package. Furthermore it would be fun to have the "Denied" implemented when you hit the deemer and also you should get some points for it. Maybe you can add a similar text on the screen like the "Denied" one which will inform ppl who made it. Should be kinda reward and also new ppl should see that it's something special when you hit the deemer. Next thing what would be interesting is the possibility to do combos as you can do with the normal shock rifles. I think this would be pretty cool. I remember that dog said something about adding shield gun as well. For me it sounds interesting too but I'm not sure if it would be possible to add all these things together.
K, here's a list of features I'd like to see included:
- 3rd View addon
- Deemer addon: Adding "Denied" when hit and a reward message broadcasted. Also give some points for it (like 25 up to 50?)
- Instagib shock combos (similar to the normal shock combo)
- Possibility of having a shield gun
Note: All the changes shouldn't affect the common mutators on the server like instagib mode (InstaGib mutator or ZoomInstaGib mutator), satore mutator. These are the main mutators and I won't change them at least it needs to be able to appear in a normal instagib filter selection. The reason for the instagib mode should be obviously: I want that the server will show up when you filter Instagib servers. The last Alpha version for example wasn't a mutator anymore but a new game type. I won't add this because there will be no new ppl joining since they simply won't know/have the new game type and therefore won't be able to see the server in their server browser.
K, Ovel needs your feedback. Post here what you think should be added/removed/improved or what ever.
Thanks. |
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Last edited by LombudXa on Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:41 pm; edited 8 times in total |
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Ovel
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: TGPInvasion Mutator needs feedback |
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| Quote: | | I see also that maps which were running really nice before suffers a bit from it as well. For example DOM-Access was really a cool map because monsters only spawn at the normal spawn points and you get trapped in between the 2 corridors. Now they spawn all over |
Well, it could be possible to add a "white-list" of maps in the ini file. The map in that list wouldn't be modified by the mutator.
| Quote: | K, here's a list of features I'd like to see included:
- 3rd View addon |
This is a nasty one. It works offline but not online and I have no idea why. From what I read in the atari forums, it seems to be a known bug. Anyway, I'll look at it, but don't hold your breath
| Quote: | | - Deemer addon: Adding "Denied" when hit and a reward message broadcasted. Also give some points for it (like 25 up to 50?) |
That one will be funny, people will go in "deemer-hunting" mode 
Shouldn't be difficult to add. Reward points can be tweaked in the ini file if needed.
| Quote: | | - Instagib shock combos (similar to the normal shock combo) |
Adding the combo is easy, but keeping the Zoom and the Combo in the same weapon is tricky.
Actually, I have no idea how we would activate the "third" firemode.
| Quote: | | - Possibility of having a shield gun |
k, working on it.
Ok, here's a new suggestion : Adding a new adrenaline combo called "Sacrifice". When triggered, the player dies, but it generates a redeemer explosion
Let's say you're surrounded by Skaarj (hellwave, anyone ?), you can sacrifice yourself to help your mates. (That one is already coded and working).
| Quote: | | Note: All the changes shouldn't affect the common mutators on the server like instagib mode (InstaGib mutator or ZoomInstaGib mutator), satore mutator. These are the main mutators and I won't change them at least it needs to be able to appear in a normal instagib filter selection. |
Well I understand your reasons and I agree with you, but if we have to modifiy the Instagib gun (for the combo thing), I don't know if it'll still be seen as a standard IG on with filters. It needs testing.
As Lom said, feedback and new ideas are welcome  |
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kafka
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Joined: Aug 02, 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Budapest
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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1. Ovel, how would the sacrifice combo work? I think a player should be able to activate it ahead of time and for the cost of 100 adrenaline, of course. Ultimately, there's no reason a player would not want to activate it except to use the adrenaline on something else. Nice idea.
2. And now this again  :
| kafka wrote: | Another idea that could become an amusing mutator is for an exploding bunny. Everytime a NaliRabbit would be fragged it would explode causing damage similar to a rocket explosion. In fact, these suicide bunnies would detonate after taking any damage at all. The effects would be the following:
- stepping on a bunny could be deadly;
- a bunny attacked by another monster would explode;
- shooting a bunny at close range would be dangerous;
- standing near a bunny when someone else shoots it could be deadly;
- 1 bunny going off in a group of bunnies could start a chain reaction. |
Any update? It shouldn't be as difficult to code as a sacrifice adrenaline combo, should it?
3. Adding BR-Access to a mutator-free white list would be great. Although, the vast majority of maps are much better with the mutator. Whenever Lom finally finds the time to add DM-DualCore ( ) it should also be white listed because the spawn points are already purposely set for INV.
4. Giant RazorFlies bug me. Their "collision box" is too small. Therefore, their models clip with the player so that you actually see through them and they become invisible for a second while biting. And 2 bites will kill. The small collision box also means that shooting through their tail, wings or legs doesn't frag them. Very frustrating. Perhaps they should go or be reduced.
5. Each hit on a Titan or Queen should score a share of points (big_dog's idea, actually). I always feel guilty when I kill a titan with 1 shot because I know some teammate (big_dog probably  ) is getting robbed of his efforts.
6. Titans (16 pts) and Queens (14 pts) are worth too many points and lightning Skaarj (6 pts) are worth too few. Points should be based on a monster's threat and difficulty to hit, instead of size, health and raw power. The lightning Skaarj kill us much more than Titans or Queens and they're MUCH harder to hit. |
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LombudXa
Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 2583
Location: omnipresent
Status: Offline
Clan: «eS][Clan»
Nick: «eS][LombudXa»
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Ovel wrote: | | LombudXa wrote: | | I see also that maps which were running really nice before suffers a bit from it as well. For example DOM-Access was really a cool map because monsters only spawn at the normal spawn points and you get trapped in between the 2 corridors. Now they spawn all over |
Well, it could be possible to add a "white-list" of maps in the ini file. The map in that list wouldn't be modified by the mutator. |
Yes I thought that it would be possible to do a white-list with maps. I even could do that without your help I can add mutators and other settings only to a specific map but I would need to change quite a lot and also keeping track of those maps is too much imo. It's even not that easy to find the bad maps on the server. So I would say we leave that for now. I more like to get rid of DOM-Access instead of all the maps I removed already.
| Ovel wrote: | | LombudXa wrote: | K, here's a list of features I'd like to see included:
- 3rd View addon |
This is a nasty one. It works offline but not online and I have no idea why. From what I read in the atari forums, it seems to be a known bug. Anyway, I'll look at it, but don't hold your breath |
Too bad. I really wanted this because this would be something really special. Well as it looks like thats something related to the engine then. It would be problematic to solve this. Well leave it for now as well.
| Ovel wrote: | | LombudXa wrote: | | - Instagib shock combos (similar to the normal shock combo) |
Adding the combo is easy, but keeping the Zoom and the Combo in the same weapon is tricky.
Actually, I have no idea how we would activate the "third" firemode. |
Well I wouldn't mind to get rid of the zoom, np for me and I think this will be the same for most other players as well. I used ZoomInstaGib because in UT2003 this was the only possibility to have translocator as well. I think in UT2004 it's also possible to add the translocator throught ini settings but I'm not that sure and I was simply to lazy to check that out when I set up the server Conclusion: Remove zoom and add the combo because this will be way more useful and also more fun
| Ovel wrote: | | Ok, here's a new suggestion : Adding a new adrenaline combo called "Sacrifice". When triggered, the player dies, but it generates a redeemer explosion |
This sounds cool as well. Just try to avoid using common adrenaline combos. I especially think about the Bonus Pack Mutators (camouflage and pint size combo) So you should be able to activate it with another combo than the existing ones.
| Ovel wrote: | | Well I understand your reasons and I agree with you, but if we have to modifiy the Instagib gun (for the combo thing), I don't know if it'll still be seen as a standard IG on with filters. It needs testing. |
Yes I know this can be tricky. But maybe you can fake it somehow. I have no idea so far how to do this but I've noticed another server with a custom instagib weapon and it appears under normal instagib when you filter it. Dunno how its called. Could be the PE_Invasion server. Well all the maps appear with an * before. I would say go ahead with adding the combo and shield gun and we'll see how it appears and such. |
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kafka
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Budapest
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| LombudXa wrote: | | I more like to get rid of DOM-Access instead of all the maps I removed already. |
Why not put DOM-Access in the ini white-list, as Ovel suggested, and forget about all the removed maps for now?  |
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Ovel
Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 107
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| kafka wrote: | | 1. Ovel, how would the sacrifice combo work? |
It works exactly like any other combo, except the keys are different.
We can assign a combo like (left-left-left-right) or (left-up-down-right), and so on... We just have to choose one.
| kafka wrote: | 2. And now this again :
Another idea that could become an amusing mutator is for an exploding bunny. Everytime a NaliRabbit would be fragged it would explode causing damage similar to a rocket explosion. In fact, these suicide bunnies would detonate after taking any damage at all. The effects would be the following:
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 i remember this one and i agree, it'd be very funny.
But if I'm not mistaken, the rabbit is apart of the satore pack. That means we have to "extract" an existing monster model from satore and modifiy it. I have no idea how to do that, or if it's even possible. But i'll look into it.
| kafka wrote: | | 3. Adding BR-Access to a mutator-free white list would be great. Although, the vast majority of maps are much better with the mutator. |
As Lom said, it would be too much work to keep track of white-listed maps.
Well there is an alternative : we can modify theses map in order to remove all PathNode and just keep the player spawn point. That would make the map exactly as if there were no mutator.
| kafka wrote: | | 4. Giant RazorFlies bug me. Their "collision box" is too small. Therefore, their models clip with the player so that you actually see through them and they become invisible for a second while biting. And 2 bites will kill. The small collision box also means that shooting through their tail, wings or legs doesn't frag them. Very frustrating. Perhaps they should go or be reduced. |
I couldn't agree more. I think these flies are way too big. But that's Lom's area here
| kafka wrote: | | 5. Each hit on a Titan or Queen should score a share of points (big_dog's idea, actually). I always feel guilty when I kill a titan with 1 shot because I know some teammate (big_dog probably ) is getting robbed of his efforts. |
i stole a lot of titans from big_dog
Keeping track of each hit (not kills) to assign a share of points is nice, but too complex for me. I think it's a good idea but i'll leave it for later.
About AerialView : | LombudXa wrote: | | Too bad. I really wanted this because this would be something really special |
Hmmm I'll email the author about that.
| LombudXa wrote: | | Well I wouldn't mind to get rid of the zoom, np for me and I think this will be the same for most other players as well. I used ZoomInstaGib because in UT2003 this was the only possibility to have translocator as well. |
Yep I don't mind removing the zoom either. It's for campers anyway
As for the translocator, it should be easy to add it. |
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kafka
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Budapest
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Ovel wrote: | | kafka wrote: | | 1. Ovel, how would the sacrifice combo work? |
It works exactly like any other combo, except the keys are different.
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I understand. So nothing would happen when the combo is activated and the explosion would only be triggered when the player is killed, right? I like the idea very much. 
| Quote: | | As Lom said, it would be too much work to keep track of white-listed maps. |
Um... One or two maps? 
| Quote: | | Well there is an alternative : we can modify theses map in order to remove all PathNode and just keep the player spawn point. That would make the map exactly as if there were no mutator. |
The monsters in Access and DualCore need the pathnodes.
| LombudXa wrote: | | Well I wouldn't mind to get rid of the zoom, np for me and I think this will be the same for most other players as well. |
I use zoom all the time and really miss it when I'm at servers without. One time when eS was down, I mentioned missing the zoom feature at another server and a lot of eS regulars replied with "Affirmative." |
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kafka
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Budapest
Status: Offline
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| By the way, could the zoom be moved to the middle mouse button with zoom level controlled by mouse wheel? |
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Ovel
Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| kafka wrote: | | I understand. So nothing would happen when the combo is activated and the explosion would only be triggered when the player is killed, right? |
Hmm not really. As soon as you activate the combo, you die
That's why it's called Sacrifice, you have to make a choice.
I think it's more effective this way because you can choose when you want to make the explosion (like i said, if you're surrounded by ennemies, you can wipe them out in a single blow).
| Quote: | | The monsters in Access and DualCore need the pathnodes. |
I don't think so. Monsters have their own AI script wich doesn't use the PathNode.
I may be wrong, but i think PathNodes are used by bots only.
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